Episodes
Monday Jun 28, 2021
The Disturbing Kingdom of Batavia's Graveyard
Monday Jun 28, 2021
Monday Jun 28, 2021
In 1628, the Batavia, a flagship Dutch Indiaman left the port of Texel in the Netherlands bound for the Dutch capital in the East Indies filled to the upper decks with gold, silver, gems and jewellery, along with a crew made up of a host of down and out soldiers, sailors and officers. Life in the Dutch East India Company was notoriously hard, but the crew aboard the Batavia were in for a special kind of torture, when the ship was wrecked off the Western Coast of Australia, leading to several months of indescribable bloodshed and violence at the hands of an especially twisted Commander.
SOURCES
van Duivenvoorde, Wendy (2015) Dutch East India Company Shipbuilding: The Archaeological Study of Batavia and Other Seventeenth-Century VOC Ships. Texas A&M University Press, USA.
Dash, Mike (2003) Batavia’s Graveyard: The True Story of the Mad Heretic Who Led History's Bloodiest Mutiny. Crown Publishing Group, NY, USA.
Fitzsimmons, Peter (2011) Batavia. William Heinemann Publishing, Australia
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For extended show notes, including maps, links and scripts, head over to darkhistories.com
Support the show by using our link when you sign up to Audible: http://audibletrial.com/darkhistories or visit our Patreon for bonus episodes and Early Access: https://www.patreon.com/darkhistories
Connect with us on Facebook: http://facebook.com/darkhistoriespodcast
Or find us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darkhistories
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Or you can contact us directly via email at contact@darkhistories.com
or via voicemail on: (415) 286-5072
or join our Discord community: https://discord.gg/cmGcBFf
The Dark Histories Butterfly was drawn by Courtney, who you can find on Instagram @bewildereye
Music was recorded by me © Ben Cutmore 2017
Other Outro music was Paul Whiteman & his orchestra with Mildred Bailey - All of me (1931). It's out of copyright now, but if you're interested, that was that.
Sunday Jun 13, 2021
Percy Fawcett & The Lost City of Z
Sunday Jun 13, 2021
Sunday Jun 13, 2021
The life of Percy Harrison Fawcett was never short of adventure. An amateur explorer who obtained a gold medal for his services to the Royal Geographical Society, in a time long before planes, GPS and radio communication. He was a man with a story and a character so much larger than life, that popular fiction has drawn influence on them for years, from Arthur Conan Doyle's “The Lost World” to the Hollywood archeology of Indiana Jones, even making an appearance in TinTin & The Broken Ear as a blowpipe wielding hermit. For over twenty years his career saw him delve deep into the Amazon, until, in 1925, just months before newspapers printed their headlines that the city of Atlantis had been found, he set off into the forest in search of a lost city he had christened simply “Z”.
SOURCES
Grann, David (2009) The Lost City of Z: A Tale of Deadly Obsession in the Amazon. Doubleday Publishing, USA.
Fawcett, Percy (1953) Lost Trails, Lost Cities. Funk & Wagnalls, NY, USA.
Thorpe, Vanessa (2004) Veil lifts on jungle mystery of the colonel who vanished. The Observer, Sun 21 March, 2004. UK
Williams, Misha (2004) AmaZonia.
Kennedy, Dane (2007) British Exploration in the Nineteenth Century: A Historiographical Survey. History Compass, 5: 1879-1900. UK
The Atlanta Constitution (1925) Daring Exploration Party Sets Forth To Find Site of Cradle of Civilization. The Atlanta Constitution, p.14, 12 Jan, 1925. Atlanta, USA.
The Leader post (1927) Fear for Col. Fawcett, Missing in Brazillian Jungle Nearly 2 Years. The Leader Post, p.1. 14 Feb, 1927. Canada
The Spokesman Review (1927) Colonel Fawcett Thought Alive. The Spokesman Review, p.67, 24 July, 1927. USA.
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For extended show notes, including maps, links and scripts, head over to darkhistories.com
Support the show by using our link when you sign up to Audible: http://audibletrial.com/darkhistories or visit our Patreon for bonus episodes and Early Access: https://www.patreon.com/darkhistories
Connect with us on Facebook: http://facebook.com/darkhistoriespodcast
Or find us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darkhistories
& Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dark_histories/
Or you can contact us directly via email at contact@darkhistories.com
or via voicemail on: (415) 286-5072
or join our Discord community: https://discord.gg/cmGcBFf
The Dark Histories Butterfly was drawn by Courtney, who you can find on Instagram @bewildereye
Music was recorded by me © Ben Cutmore 2017
Other Outro music was Paul Whiteman & his orchestra with Mildred Bailey - All of me (1931). It's out of copyright now, but if you're interested, that was that.
Sunday May 30, 2021
The Midnight Assassin
Sunday May 30, 2021
Sunday May 30, 2021
In 1885 a terrifying string of attacks in Austin, Texas erupted through the city, preying on the servant class. An unknown attacker, or band of attackers, broke into the residences of servants across the city, striking many of them in the head with an axe. The attacks carried on for months with police making little advancement until the night of Christmas Eve saw two of the city's gentry struck down forcing the authorities to act. Queue a flock of noseblind bloodhounds, a trio of fake Pinkertons and a mayor with far too much on his plate.
SOURCES
Galloway, J.R. (2010) The Servant Girl Murders: Austin, Texas 1885. Booklocker.com, inc. USA.
Galloway, J.R. (2021) About The Victims | The Servant Girl Murders Austin, Texas 1885. [online] Servantgirlmurders.com. Available at: [Accessed 23 May 2021].
Hollandsworth, Skip (2017) The Midnight Assassin: Panic, Scandal, and The Hunt For America’s First Serial Killer. Picador Publishing, USA.
Fort Worth Daily Gazette (1885) A Colored Woman Murdered - Birth of the Daily Sun. 01 Jan, 1885, p.5. TX, USA
Austin American Statesman (1885) Bloody Work. 01 Jan, 1885, p.4. TX, USA
Austin American Statesman (1885) Still A Mystery. 02 Jan, 1885, p.4. TX, USA
Austin American Statesman (1885) A Day And Deed. 03 March, 1885, p.4. TX, USA
Austin American Statesman (1885) At It Again. 30 April, 1885, p.4. TX, USA
Austin American Statesman (1885) More Butchery. 23 May, 1885, p.4. TX, USA
Austin American Statesman (1885) Slain Servants. 30 Sep, 1885, p.4. TX, USA
Austin American Statesman (1885) Blood! Blood! Blood! 26 Dec, 1885, p.4. TX, USA
Austin American Statesman (1885) The Assassinations. 14 Jan, 1885, p.4. TX, USA
A collection of historical Photographs and Maps were found here: https://texashistory.unt.edu/explore/collections/AHCP/browse/?fq=untl_decade%3A1880-1889&start=24
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For extended show notes, including maps, links and scripts, head over to darkhistories.com
Support the show by using our link when you sign up to Audible: http://audibletrial.com/darkhistories or visit our Patreon for bonus episodes and Early Access: https://www.patreon.com/darkhistories
Connect with us on Facebook: http://facebook.com/darkhistoriespodcast
Or find us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darkhistories
& Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dark_histories/
Or you can contact us directly via email at contact@darkhistories.com
or via voicemail on: (415) 286-5072
or join our Discord community: https://discord.gg/cmGcBFf
The Dark Histories Butterfly was drawn by Courtney, who you can find on Instagram @bewildereye
Music was recorded by me © Ben Cutmore 2017
Other Outro music was Paul Whiteman & his orchestra with Mildred Bailey - All of me (1931). It's out of copyright now, but if you're interested, that was that.
Sunday May 16, 2021
Clarita Villanueva & The Thing
Sunday May 16, 2021
Sunday May 16, 2021
In 1953, a strange story crept out of the Philippines, when newspapers began reporting on the Dracula Girl, a young, Filipino vagrant, who had been arrested for prostitution and who now appeared to be facing even darker powers, as she battled with a pair of tormentors, collectively known as The Thing. For over two weeks, doctors, reporters, prison guards and inmates watched over the strange behaviour of the young girl, completely at a loss for what to do, until eventually, in stepped a Protestant Pastor with a penchant for evangelism and a conviction that he knew exactly what to do in the situation.
SOURCES
Sumrall, Lester (1987) Bitten By Devils: The Supernatural Account of a Young Girl Bitten by Unseen Demons, Documented by Medical Doctors & Her Miraculous Deliverance That Would Bring Revival to a Nation. Sumrall Publishing, USA.
Sumrall, Lester (1987) The Deliverance of Clarita Villanueva: Bitten by Demons. Sumrall Publishing, USA.
The Yuma Daily Sun (1953) Evil Spirits Attack Girl Even When Mayor Near. The Yuma Daily Sun, Tuesday 19 May, 1953. P.1. Yuma, USA.
Guzman, Leonoro S. de (1964) The Philippines' social welfare administration: A historical account of its formation, 1946-1956. University of Southern California, USA.
The Barrier Miner (1953) Dracula Girl. Thursday 28 May, 1953, p.1. NSW, Australia.
Singleton Argus (1953) Playful Ghost Has A Familiar Face. Friday 22 May, 1953, p.1. Sydney, Australia.
The Argus (1953) Dracula Victim Can Be Cured. Thursday 21 May, 1953, p.5. Melbourne, Australia.
The Argus (1953) Prelate May Fight Dracula. Wednesday 20 May, 1953, p.7. Melbourne, Australia.
The Truth (1953) Vampire! Sunday 24 May, 1953, p.13. Sydney, Australia.
Beaver Valley Times (1953) Wednesday 20 May, 1953, p.8. PA, USA.
The Sydney Morning Herald (1953) Wednesday 20 May, 1953, p.3, Sydney, Australia.
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For extended show notes, including maps, links and scripts, head over to darkhistories.com
Support the show by using our link when you sign up to Audible: http://audibletrial.com/darkhistories or visit our Patreon for bonus episodes and Early Access: https://www.patreon.com/darkhistories
Connect with us on Facebook: http://facebook.com/darkhistoriespodcast
Or find us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darkhistories
& Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dark_histories/
Or you can contact us directly via email at contact@darkhistories.com
or via voicemail on: (415) 286-5072
or join our Discord community: https://discord.gg/cmGcBFf
The Dark Histories Butterfly was drawn by Courtney, who you can find on Instagram @bewildereye
Music was recorded by me © Ben Cutmore 2017
Other Outro music was Paul Whiteman & his orchestra with Mildred Bailey - All of me (1931). It's out of copyright now, but if you're interested, that was that.
Monday Apr 26, 2021
Concerning the recent technical difficulties
Monday Apr 26, 2021
Monday Apr 26, 2021
Hey everyone, just a quick message and to let you all know that all the recent technical difficulties the podcast has been having that has been stopping the feed from distributing the podcast should be all fixed! Huzzah!
Monday Apr 26, 2021
Joanna Southcott, The Panacea Society & The Mystery Box
Monday Apr 26, 2021
Monday Apr 26, 2021
The end of the 18th Century saw the birth of a long line of religious movements focused on the end of days and the biblical second coming. Central to this string of beliefs was an unimposing domestic servant who began to have visions in her mid-life, which she claimed were divine in nature, eventually leading to her insistence that she was a prophetess and at the young age of 64, was pregnant with the new messiah. Far from fading away after the holy childs due date came and went, the movement continued under several different guises for hundreds of years, culminating with the belief in a holy book of dinner etiquette and a mysterious wooden box, the contents of which were lying in wait until called upon to rescue Britain from its catastrophic end.
SOURCES
The TImes (1815) The TImes, Monday 2 Jan, 1815, London, UK
The Stamford Mercury (1815) Dissection of Joanna Southcott. Monday 2 Jan, 1815, UK.
Madden, Deborah (2016) Prophecy in the Age of Revolution. Prophecy and Eschatology in the Transatlantic World, 1550 - 1800 (pp.259-281), University of Brighton, UK.
Cross, George (1915) Millenarianism in Christian History. The Biblical World, Jul., 1915, Vol. 46, No. 1 (Jul., 1915), pp. 3-8. The University of Chicago Press, USA.
Lockley, Philip (2012) Visionary Religion and Radicalism in Early Industrial England: From Southcott to Socialism. Oxford University Press, UK
Southcott, Joanna (1792) The Strange Effects of Faith: With Remarkable Prophecies. T. Brice, Exeter, UK.
Southcott, Joanna (1814) The Third Book of Wonders: Announcing the Coming of Shiloh. Exeter, UK.
Shaw, Jane (2012) Octavia, Daughter of God. Vintage Books, UK.
Price, Harry (1933) Leaves From a Psychist’s Case-Book. Victor Gollancz Ltd, UK
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For extended show notes, including maps, links and scripts, head over to darkhistories.com
Support the show by using our link when you sign up to Audible: http://audibletrial.com/darkhistories or visit our Patreon for bonus episodes and Early Access: https://www.patreon.com/darkhistories
Connect with us on Facebook: http://facebook.com/darkhistoriespodcast
Or find us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darkhistories
& Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dark_histories/
Or you can contact us directly via email at contact@darkhistories.com
or via voicemail on: (415) 286-5072
or join our Discord community: https://discord.gg/cmGcBFf
The Dark Histories Butterfly was drawn by Courtney, who you can find on Instagram @bewildereye
Music was recorded by me © Ben Cutmore 2017
Other Outro music was Paul Whiteman & his orchestra with Mildred Bailey - All of me (1931). It's out of copyright now, but if you're interested, that was that.
Tuesday Apr 06, 2021
The Laetitia Toureaux Affair
Tuesday Apr 06, 2021
Tuesday Apr 06, 2021
In the late Spring of 1937, the murder of a young Italian immigrant stormed the Paris headlines. The first murder to have taken place on the Metro, it was a baffling affair with no witnesses and a murder of unusual precision. As the country mired in political turmoil, newspapers filled their columns with rumours of the victims life, quickly filling the information void with sensational stories of divey music halls, gangsters and allusions to sordid affairs. The truth, however, would turn out to be far more bombastic than even the most spurious rumours, leading to the slow unravelling of a story of clandestine intelligence, assassinations and a plot to overthrow the government.
SOURCES
Tuohy, Ferdinand (1937) Mystery In The Metro. The Sphere, Sat 12 June, 1937, p.18. UK
Nottingham Evening Post (1937) The 60 second Murder. Fri 21 May, 1937, p.5. UK
Brunelle, Gayle K. & Finnley-Crosswhite, Anette (2012) Murder in the Metro: Laetitia Toureaux and the Cagoule in 1930s France. LSU Press, USA.
Furlough, Ellen (1998) Making Mass Vacations: Tourism and Consumer Culture in France, 1930s to 1970s, Comparative Studies in Society and History Vol. 40, No. 2 (Apr., 1998), pp. 247-286, Cambridge University Press, UK
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For extended show notes, including maps, links and scripts, head over to darkhistories.com
Support the show by using our link when you sign up to Audible: http://audibletrial.com/darkhistories or visit our Patreon for bonus episodes and Early Access: https://www.patreon.com/darkhistories
Connect with us on Facebook: http://facebook.com/darkhistoriespodcast
Or find us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darkhistories
& Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dark_histories/
Or you can contact us directly via email at contact@darkhistories.com
or via voicemail on: (415) 286-5072
or join our Discord community: https://discord.gg/cmGcBFf
The Dark Histories Butterfly was drawn by Courtney, who you can find on Instagram @bewildereye
Music was recorded by me © Ben Cutmore 2017
Other Outro music was Paul Whiteman & his orchestra with Mildred Bailey - All of me (1931). It's out of copyright now, but if you're interested, that was that.
Sunday Mar 21, 2021
Gordon Cummins: The Blackout Ripper
Sunday Mar 21, 2021
Sunday Mar 21, 2021
“In war, one of our great protections against the dangers of air attack after nightfall will be the "blackout". On the outbreak of hostilities all external lights and street lighting would be totally extinguished so as to give hostile aircraft no indication as to their whereabouts. But this will not be fully effective unless you do your part, and see to it that no lighting in the house where you live is visible from the outside. The motto for safety will be 'Keep it dark!'”
So read the opening paragraph from Public Information Leaflet No.2, published in England on the eve of war, 1939. What may have kept people safe from German bombs, however, had its own disadvantages. Criminality thrived in the gloomy, empty streets. In 1942, as the German bombs began to fall less frequently, a new threat opened up on the streets of London, altogether more silent, emerging from the shadows with a rye smile and unrelenting charm.
SOURCES
The Daily Herald (1942) Waiting Woman is Murdered. Feb 10, 1942. p.3. London, UK
The Daily Mirror (1942) Three Women Murdered In Two Days. Feb 11, 1942. P.8. London, UK.
The Daily Mirror (1942) Razorblade Killed Ex-Soho Actress. Feb 12, 1942. P.8. London, UK.
The Daily Mirror (1942) Fifth Woman Murder In Week. Feb 14, 1942. P.8. London, UK.
Civil Defense (1939) Public Information Leaflet No.2. Lord Privy Seal’s Office, UK
Read, Simon (2006) In The Dark. Berkeley Publishing Group, USA.
Thomas, Donald (2003) An Underworld at War: Spivs, Deserters, Racketeers and Civilians in the Second World War. John Murray, UK.
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For extended show notes, including maps, links and scripts, head over to darkhistories.com
Support the show by using our link when you sign up to Audible: http://audibletrial.com/darkhistories or visit our Patreon for bonus episodes and Early Access: https://www.patreon.com/darkhistories
Connect with us on Facebook: http://facebook.com/darkhistoriespodcast
Or find us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darkhistories
& Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dark_histories/
Or you can contact us directly via email at contact@darkhistories.com
or via voicemail on: (415) 286-5072
or join our Discord community: https://discord.gg/cmGcBFf
The Dark Histories Butterfly was drawn by Courtney, who you can find on Instagram @bewildereye
Music was recorded by me © Ben Cutmore 2017
Other Outro music was Paul Whiteman & his orchestra with Mildred Bailey - All of me (1931). It's out of copyright now, but if you're interested, that was that.
Tuesday Mar 02, 2021
Phantom Airships of the 19th Century
Tuesday Mar 02, 2021
Tuesday Mar 02, 2021
In the winter of 1896, a spate of airship sightings spread out from California, stampeding across the United States until, in the Spring of 1897, they hit a wall in the midwest, after a brief flirtation on the East Coast. The sightings totalled in their tens of thousands and many included fantastical descriptions of both the ship and the people riding it. As the ships flew from state to state, the stories often grew bolder in their claims until they were heavily dovetailing with the science fiction of the day. With airships still incapable of sustained flight in 1896, were any of the sightings true? Or were the witnesses seeing something else in the sky? Are some of the more outrageous stories, actually far closer to the truth than they may at first seem, or was the whole affair just one big medley of lies, hoax and misidentifications?
SOURCES
Evans, Hillary & Bartholomew, Robert (2009) The Encyclopedia of Extraordinary Social Behaviour. Anomalist Books, Texas, USA
Cohen, Daniel (1981) The Great Airship Mystery: A UFO of the 1890s. Dodd, Mead & Co. New York, USA.
The San Francisco Examiner (1896) Nations May Yet Fight In The Air. 16th Feb 1896, p.32. San Francisco, USA.
The Record Union (1896) What Was It? 18 Nov 1896, p.4. Sacramento, USA.
The San Francisco Call (1896) Claim They Saw A Flying Airship. 18 Nov 1896, p.3. San Francisco, USA.
The San Francisco Call (1896) Strange Craft Of The Sky. 19 Nov 1896, p.3. San Francisco, USA.
Sacramento Bee (1896) Air Ship Or What? 19 Nov 1896, p.1. Sacramento, USA.
The San Francisco Call (1896) A Winged Ship In The Sky. 23 Nov 1896, p.1. San Francisco, USA.
The San Francisco Examiner (1896) Airships Now Fly In Flocks. 25 Nov 1896, p.5. San Francisco, USA.
The Evening Mail (1896) Three Strange Visitors. 27 Nov 1896, p.1. Stockton, USA.
The Nebraska State Journal (1897) An Airship or Ill Omen. 23 Feb 18977, p.5. Nebraska, USA.
The Leavenworth TImes (1897) Like The Sea Serpent. 28 Feb 1897, p.1. Kansas, USA.
The Times Herald (1897) Not An Airship. 10 Apr 1897, p.1. Michigan, USA.
The Times Herald (1897) Airship In Michigan. 13 Apr 1897, p.8. Michigan, USA.
The Evening Times (1897) The Airship Coming Here. 13 Apr 1897, p.5. Washington, USA.
The Boston Globe (1897) Airship Was A Hoax. 15 Apr 1897, p.6. Boston, USA.
San Francisco Chronicle (1897) How The Airship Drops Letters. 19 Apr 1897, San Francisco, USA.
The Dallas Morning News (1897) A Windmill Demolishes It. 19 Apr 1897, Texas, USA.
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For extended show notes, including maps, links and scripts, head over to darkhistories.com
Support the show by using our link when you sign up to Audible: http://audibletrial.com/darkhistories or visit our Patreon for bonus episodes and Early Access: https://www.patreon.com/darkhistories
Connect with us on Facebook: http://facebook.com/darkhistoriespodcast
Or find us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darkhistories
& Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dark_histories/
Or you can contact us directly via email at contact@darkhistories.com
or via voicemail on: (415) 286-5072
or join our Discord community: https://discord.gg/cmGcBFf
The Dark Histories Butterfly was drawn by Courtney, who you can find on Instagram @bewildereye
Music was recorded by me © Ben Cutmore 2017
Other Outro music was Paul Whiteman & his orchestra with Mildred Bailey - All of me (1931). It's out of copyright now, but if you're interested, that was that.
Monday Feb 15, 2021
Haunted Bones: Screaming Skulls
Monday Feb 15, 2021
Monday Feb 15, 2021
Haunted human remains are a trope popular in modern horror, from the twisted ivory puppet in the House on Haunted Hill to the skeletal corpses, floating in the swimming pool of Poltergeist, human bones have long held a place of fear, worship and power throughout history and cultures, eventually manifesting within the horror genre of the 20th Century. At the time of the English Civil War, the whisperings of an emergent folk tradition seeded its place in the popular imagination, when stories of skulls with seemingly supernatural powers began to seep from the large, rural manor houses throughout Britain. Screaming Skulls, as they became known, were kept in farm houses, rectories and family estates both for protection and through fear of what might happen if they were mistreated, a situation which sent stories spinning through the local vicinity.
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SOURCES
Hutchinson, John (1809) Hutchinson’s Tour Through The High Peak of Derbyshire. J. Wilson, Macclesfield, UK.
Laycock, Samuel (1863) An Address to Dickie. The Ashton Weekly Reporter and Stalybridge and Dukinfield Chronicle, Saturday 18 July, 1863, p.4.
Ingram, John H. (1897) The Haunted Homes and Family Traditions of Great Britain. Gibbing & Co. LTD, London, UK.
Collinson, John. (1791) HIstory and Antiquities of the County of Somerset, Vol II. R. Crutwell, Bath, UK
Udal, John S. (1910) Concerning the legend of the skull of Bettiscombe manor. Proceedings of the Dorset Natural History and Archaeological Society Volume 31, 1910. UK
Chilton Cantelo and Ashington Parish Website. 2021. Home - Chilton Cantelo and Ashington Parish Website. [online] Available at: [Accessed 2 February 2021].
Clarke, David (1999) The head cult: tradition and folklore surrounding the symbol of the severed human head in the British Isles. University of Sheffield, UK.
Underwood, Peter (1988) Ghosts of Dorset. Bossiney Books, UK
Bord, Janet (2009) Screaming Skulls: Haunting Headbones or Ghostly Guardians? Paranormal Magazine, Issue 37, July 2009.
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For extended show notes, including maps, links and scripts, head over to darkhistories.com
Support the show by using our link when you sign up to Audible: http://audibletrial.com/darkhistories or visit our Patreon for bonus episodes and Early Access: https://www.patreon.com/darkhistories
Connect with us on Facebook: http://facebook.com/darkhistoriespodcast
Or find us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/darkhistories
& Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dark_histories/
Or you can contact us directly via email at contact@darkhistories.com
or via voicemail on: (415) 286-5072
or join our Discord community: https://discord.gg/cmGcBFf
The Dark Histories Butterfly was drawn by Courtney, who you can find on Instagram @bewildereye
Music was recorded by me © Ben Cutmore 2017
Other Outro music was Paul Whiteman & his orchestra with Mildred Bailey - All of me (1931). It's out of copyright now, but if you're interested, that was that.